But what of those other bumps? Those things that the Devil does do?
I've heard it dozens of times, the hard things (or trials) we go through in life can be attributed to a number of sources.
- God testing us. (See the book of Job) This one...I feel I'd like to see less ambiguity on. How are we supposed to know when we're being tested and not receiving pot shots from Satan's firey pea-shooter?
- The result of "living in a sinful world." Makes sense. People make stupid decisions like ill-directed bomb-shells. When they blow, the "unintended" body count can be staggering.
- God's Plan. Well, this one is rather all-encompassing...because all is in His plan, as I understand and takes into acount all the above and below.
- The Devil. (See Ephesians 6)
Difficulty: how are we to decern which is which? I mean, tough times are tough regardless of the source! A death in the family can be spirit-rending regardless of whether you're being tested, or a boozer running his car into them (sin in the world), or Satan's influance. All can be pulled through with His strength. All can be used to build perserverence, and perserverence characher, and character faith etc. The reaction to all trials should be the same: running to the strengh and security and peace of Christ.
So then, what then matters about the distinction? And consequently, what then matters about the Devil?
" All can be used to build perserverence, and perserverence characher, and character faith etc. The reaction to all trials should be the same: running to the strengh and security and peace of Christ."
ReplyDeleteI agree with this, its the other stuff that is meandering in unwarranted existentialism. Not that its wrong to question, and not that God can't handle it, but it is important to note it doesn't say anywhere in the bible "In every bad thing that happens to you know where it came from" instead it says "in all things rejoice." I would like to expand on something you pointed out yourself. The idea that God doesn't just work around sin or a fallen world, but that he in fact has conquered sin and is making a new world in the shell of the old. This means that God doesn't use sin, but in all things utterly defeats sin. And the most profound way to defeat sin, the most poignant manifestation of God's perfect redemption is to teach us through it. Not that he intended it, not that he wants us to sin so he can teach us. He is powerful enough to teach us without sin, but he is even more powerful to teach us despite of sin.
In your example of Job God never saids "dude, cool it, all the bad stuff was from the devil not me." he says "where were you when I created the heavens and the earth?" God wants us to continue to test our own faith, to question and probe and pursue truth, but there is some stuff that doesn't get us anywhere. If in every situation we are trying to see what God can teach us it doesn't matter if the shit is coming from God, Satan, or the wizard of oz.
Sorry if that sounded preachy, you know I just love talking about this kind of stuff. I'd love to have another night on the trampoline. Keep questioning, keep searching. Jesus is the truth so we don't have to be afraid to seek truth, it'll always lead back to him.
Grace and peace,
Roderick
If you want to go real deep in the Job stuff the hebrew word used for Satan literally means adversary or one who stands against and he appears with the angels so many scholars speculate that he is actually a sort of Prosecuting attorney in the angelic realm. Also the first two and the last chapter of Job is dated to be much more recent than the rest of the book which scholars believe signifies that the story of Job is very very ancient and finds itself in other near east cultures as well, but that the other chapters were added to kind of frame the understanding of what was going on. Not that it was added to change meaning, that stuff was already implied in there, but that the wording itself was added as a reference.
ReplyDeleteAlso if you're interested there is a school of thought that says that the books of wisdom (Proverbs, Psalms, Ecclesiasties, Job) are actually an ancient debate played out in the middle of our scriptures. This debate has two sides. Proverbs and Psalms posit that if you are good you are blessed by God and if you are bad you are cursed by God. Where as Ecclesiasties and Job seem to say "what about when bad stuff happens to good people" Personally I find it comforting that this tension is not just me thinking way to much about stuff, but that rabbinic teachers for thousands of years have been struggling with the same debate. To the point of saying (and i'm sort of speculating at this point) that this tension goes right smack in the middle of our scriptures because both are true. Good things happen to good people and bad things happen to good people.
Just some food for thought.
Grace and peace, (and I mean that I wish nothing more than for you to experience God's grace and peace, not just in your life, but in an overflowing measure that those in your community might experience it too)
Roderick
Whoa... I really enjoyed reading through your comments, and rereading them! There's a lot there, and you make sense. You've always had an amazing way of communicating your thoughts in a way that I feel I never will.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of, perhaps I didn't make clear the exact point that has been poking my mind...but you seem to have put it quite nicely:
"If in every situation we are trying to see what God can teach us it doesn't matter if the shit is coming from God, Satan, or the wizard of oz."
I agree completely with this statement! That's the exact reasoning that led me to write this particular blog entry.
It's kinda a ridiculous statement for me to be making exactly, and trust me when I say that that question shouldn't exactly be taken at face value (there's alot underneath), but still. If it doesn't mater where it comes from (in regard to our response to trials), then essentially, the devil could be ignored? If all sources of trial are treated as same, and the focus is just on the response to trail, why does the devil mater?
[This is ignoring certain aspects of the supernatural which I understand are responsible for directly influencing individuals a la the occult. Something I'd appreciate greater insight into eventually...]
In essence, he doesn't. He has already been defeated by Jesus' death on the cross. What we experience now is only the final death throws of an animal backed into a corner. It seems worse, but that is because he is more desperate because he knows as well as us that Christ is victorious. Therefore he can't be ignored, because he still effects profoundly in peoples lives, but we should always remember that he is defeated. Not will be defeated, but IS defeated, right now and forever.
ReplyDeleteOn another note, trial and temptation are different things, The scriptures say (james I believe) that no temptation comes from God, therefore it comes from the devil and his demons. Sin and temptation is different than trial and persecution. We are called to resist the devil (through sin and temptation) and to do that we can't ignore him. But in the midst of sin and "trial" or persecution we still have the glorious grace filled opportunity to learn and to seek the wisdom of God in that situation.
We need to make the distinction between trial and sin or temptation. And once we do it becomes imperative that we do not ignore the devil, but find where he is working in this world and bring christ there. To say that because I can learn something despite the devil (to ignore him) is a rather self centered view of our calling. We are called, rather, to bring the kingdom of God to the places where the devil still has dominion and this may be in our lives, but it may be in other's lives as well.
Keep musing, You are a brilliant man Alex,
--Roderick